Comments on: The price of FREEdom http://www.grenoblelife.com/the-price-of-freedom/ The English speaking forum of Grenoble Fri, 23 Jul 2010 16:19:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: James Dalrymple http://www.grenoblelife.com/the-price-of-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-623 James Dalrymple Sat, 01 May 2010 10:03:01 +0000 http://www.grenoblelife.com/?p=2293#comment-623 UPDATE: Well, having paid the debt collecting agency Effico the 33.99 euro just to get them off our back (this was the sum of one month's Free subscription for January which we didn't really owe them because we had attempted to cancel the contract before then, with difficulty - see above) we are now receiving bills from Free and Effico for apparently random amounts of money. It is not written on the bill what the amounts are for: we would have to call up a presumably premium rate number for the priviledge of finding out, which of course I'm not going to do. Luckily they don't seem to have made a note of our new address or telephone number - the bills have been coming via redirected post from our old flat. Anyway, I am now going to adopt Pat and Anna's advice and just ignore all correspondence from both Free and Effico. They can threaten to take us to court if they want but I seriosuly doubt this would be in their interests given the low sums they are demanding, and the fact they don't have a leg to stand on. I can only reiterate what an unpleasant and entirely unneccessary hassle its been dealing with Free and strongly recommend others not to do the same. Why this industry is not better regulated is a mystery ... UPDATE:
Well, having paid the debt collecting agency Effico the 33.99 euro just to get them off our back (this was the sum of one month’s Free subscription for January which we didn’t really owe them because we had attempted to cancel the contract before then, with difficulty – see above) we are now receiving bills from Free and Effico for apparently random amounts of money.

It is not written on the bill what the amounts are for: we would have to call up a presumably premium rate number for the priviledge of finding out, which of course I’m not going to do. Luckily they don’t seem to have made a note of our new address or telephone number – the bills have been coming via redirected post from our old flat.

Anyway, I am now going to adopt Pat and Anna’s advice and just ignore all correspondence from both Free and Effico. They can threaten to take us to court if they want but I seriosuly doubt this would be in their interests given the low sums they are demanding, and the fact they don’t have a leg to stand on.

I can only reiterate what an unpleasant and entirely unneccessary hassle its been dealing with Free and strongly recommend others not to do the same. Why this industry is not better regulated is a mystery …

]]> By: Pat Brans http://www.grenoblelife.com/the-price-of-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-583 Pat Brans Fri, 09 Apr 2010 15:46:28 +0000 http://www.grenoblelife.com/?p=2293#comment-583 This is interesting. I think we have a basis for a class action law suit; but as far as I know, that doesn't exist in France. My story is slightly different from yours. The slight difference is they never acknowledge the receipt of my Freebox. In other respects I seem to be about four months ahead of you on the process, so maybe my experience can help. They put a collection agency on me. I think the agency was different. I'd like to say, the agency they put on me was named something like "Ineffico", because that's what they were. But I'm afraid I can't remember the name. Anyway, they bark an awful lot, but they don't bite. They don't have a leg to stand on. Some lady from the agency gave me a call once or twice and I told her that they should go ahead and suit me. She made some threatening remarks (that scared me so much, I can't remember what they were). To make a short story long, it fizzled out and they never did more than send threatening letters and make obnoxious calls. Enjoy it while it lasts, but definitely don't let them scare you into paying. I'm sure we can find a few hundred people in Grenoble who have similar experiences and can testify in your defense. This is interesting. I think we have a basis for a class action law suit; but as far as I know, that doesn’t exist in France.

My story is slightly different from yours. The slight difference is they never acknowledge the receipt of my Freebox.

In other respects I seem to be about four months ahead of you on the process, so maybe my experience can help. They put a collection agency on me. I think the agency was different. I’d like to say, the agency they put on me was named something like “Ineffico”, because that’s what they were. But I’m afraid I can’t remember the name.

Anyway, they bark an awful lot, but they don’t bite. They don’t have a leg to stand on. Some lady from the agency gave me a call once or twice and I told her that they should go ahead and suit me. She made some threatening remarks (that scared me so much, I can’t remember what they were).

To make a short story long, it fizzled out and they never did more than send threatening letters and make obnoxious calls.

Enjoy it while it lasts, but definitely don’t let them scare you into paying. I’m sure we can find a few hundred people in Grenoble who have similar experiences and can testify in your defense.

]]> By: James Dalrymple http://www.grenoblelife.com/the-price-of-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-582 James Dalrymple Fri, 09 Apr 2010 15:26:43 +0000 http://www.grenoblelife.com/?p=2293#comment-582 Update: Free have finally acknoweleged receipt of the Freebox but their outstanding demand for payment of the final month's subscription fee (which we don't owe) has been transferred to a debt collection agency named 'Effico'. Effico has sent us a letter threatening to take us to court, but given the small amount of money involved (33.99 euro) we have decided to pay it. We are still planning to look into reclaiming this money from Free, however, with the help of a mediator (see above). I will post a comment when I know more about this process. Update:

Free have finally acknoweleged receipt of the Freebox but their outstanding demand for payment of the final month’s subscription fee (which we don’t owe) has been transferred to a debt collection agency named ‘Effico’.

Effico has sent us a letter threatening to take us to court, but given the small amount of money involved (33.99 euro) we have decided to pay it. We are still planning to look into reclaiming this money from Free, however, with the help of a mediator (see above). I will post a comment when I know more about this process.

]]> By: James Dalrymple http://www.grenoblelife.com/the-price-of-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-456 James Dalrymple Tue, 02 Feb 2010 21:04:22 +0000 http://www.grenoblelife.com/?p=2293#comment-456 Hi Pat, There was an Envoyée Special on tv the other night about Free and various other companies like it. Apparently there are lawyers who mediate in these cases and can sort it out over the phone in five minutes, and they can get you compensation for your troubles and have the company pay your legal costs. They know who to speak to at the company headquarters. It may not be necessary to go to court, especially if you have all your proof. The implication of the programme was that cases likes yours and mine are due to disorganisation and inefficiency on the part of the company, not a deliberate attempt to rip you off. I'm not so sure about that, since Orange/France Telecom were the only company which permitted cameras in its call centres. It seemed the others had something to hide. If anyone knows any more about lawyers who can mediate in such disputes please let us know ... Hi Pat,

There was an Envoyée Special on tv the other night about Free and various other companies like it. Apparently there are lawyers who mediate in these cases and can sort it out over the phone in five minutes, and they can get you compensation for your troubles and have the company pay your legal costs. They know who to speak to at the company headquarters. It may not be necessary to go to court, especially if you have all your proof.

The implication of the programme was that cases likes yours and mine are due to disorganisation and inefficiency on the part of the company, not a deliberate attempt to rip you off. I’m not so sure about that, since Orange/France Telecom were the only company which permitted cameras in its call centres. It seemed the others had something to hide.

If anyone knows any more about lawyers who can mediate in such disputes please let us know …

]]> By: Ian SMITH http://www.grenoblelife.com/the-price-of-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-443 Ian SMITH Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:59:21 +0000 http://www.grenoblelife.com/?p=2293#comment-443 As I understand it Orange are obliged to remain more expensive than the competition for as long as they have over 50% market share. This is to give newcomers the chance to build up a customer base in the face of the domination of the former state monopoly. That said, my experience has been that Orange continually lowers its prices to keep just slightly above the competition. I have had problems with Liveboxes and I have always been able to speak to a technician very quickly. It's sometimes been a little tortuous, but in each case they have replaced the box. So yes, they are more expensive, but when things go wrong they behave like a grown up company. As I understand it Orange are obliged to remain more expensive than the competition for as long as they have over 50% market share. This is to give newcomers the chance to build up a customer base in the face of the domination of the former state monopoly. That said, my experience has been that Orange continually lowers its prices to keep just slightly above the competition. I have had problems with Liveboxes and I have always been able to speak to a technician very quickly. It’s sometimes been a little tortuous, but in each case they have replaced the box. So yes, they are more expensive, but when things go wrong they behave like a grown up company.

]]> By: James Dalrymple http://www.grenoblelife.com/the-price-of-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-441 James Dalrymple Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:24:02 +0000 http://www.grenoblelife.com/?p=2293#comment-441 Hi Pat, It looks like we're in the same boat. Apparently when Free claim for the cost of the box they claim 400 euros. Like you I have my proof and I think we should refuse on principle. I'll add a comment to this article when/if I have any news on that. Stay in touch, James Hi Pat,

It looks like we’re in the same boat.

Apparently when Free claim for the cost of the box they claim 400 euros.

Like you I have my proof and I think we should refuse on principle.

I’ll add a comment to this article when/if I have any news on that.

Stay in touch,

James

]]> By: Pat http://www.grenoblelife.com/the-price-of-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-440 Pat Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:12:31 +0000 http://www.grenoblelife.com/?p=2293#comment-440 This is a very timely article for me. I followed all the right steps to unsubscribe and have an AR to prove I sent the box (well it proves I sent something). And Free denies having sent it. I've talked to them on the phone several times and have sent them email. I've decided to let them sue me. They have a reputation for making it impossible to unsubscribe, so I'm going to take my chances. Anybody have experience with being sued by Free (or the huissiers they use)? The amount is only around 75 euros. This is a very timely article for me. I followed all the right steps to unsubscribe and have an AR to prove I sent the box (well it proves I sent something). And Free denies having sent it. I’ve talked to them on the phone several times and have sent them email. I’ve decided to let them sue me. They have a reputation for making it impossible to unsubscribe, so I’m going to take my chances.

Anybody have experience with being sued by Free (or the huissiers they use)? The amount is only around 75 euros.

]]> By: Mickey http://www.grenoblelife.com/the-price-of-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-432 Mickey Wed, 27 Jan 2010 10:17:20 +0000 http://www.grenoblelife.com/?p=2293#comment-432 I pay premium prices for Orange, which is owned by France Telecom, and their customer service isn't great either (of course it is outsourced and the quality of the help you get depends on who answers the call). However, they have one big affliate advantage that worked in my favor. I have frequent problems with the phone lines out in my tiny village. When the LiveBox randomly quit working for hours at a time, I called for help. Orange and France Telecom passed me back and forth quite a bit, and ultimately a total of 15 technicians over 3 months, from both Orange and FT, came out to puzzle over the problem. But they did come, and they eventually found a fix. Services not affiliated with FT can claim that the problem is with the phone line - and then it's up to you to coordinate with FT, who will tell you that the problem is with your internet box... I pay premium prices for Orange, which is owned by France Telecom, and their customer service isn’t great either (of course it is outsourced and the quality of the help you get depends on who answers the call). However, they have one big affliate advantage that worked in my favor. I have frequent problems with the phone lines out in my tiny village. When the LiveBox randomly quit working for hours at a time, I called for help. Orange and France Telecom passed me back and forth quite a bit, and ultimately a total of 15 technicians over 3 months, from both Orange and FT, came out to puzzle over the problem. But they did come, and they eventually found a fix. Services not affiliated with FT can claim that the problem is with the phone line – and then it’s up to you to coordinate with FT, who will tell you that the problem is with your internet box…

]]> By: James Dalrymple http://www.grenoblelife.com/the-price-of-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-428 James Dalrymple Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:18:14 +0000 http://www.grenoblelife.com/?p=2293#comment-428 Thanks for your comments guys. Woody - thanks for the other suggestions Suzanne - I recommend that you send the box back "recommandé avec accusé de réception". I sent it just "recommandé" but without the "accusé de réception". I'm not sure if this will help but it's worth a try. Anna - I suppose it's reassuring to know that Free gave up in the end, thanks for letting me know. Thanks for your comments guys.

Woody – thanks for the other suggestions

Suzanne – I recommend that you send the box back “recommandé avec accusé de réception”. I sent it just “recommandé” but without the “accusé de réception”. I’m not sure if this will help but it’s worth a try.

Anna – I suppose it’s reassuring to know that Free gave up in the end, thanks for letting me know.

]]> By: Anna Cartalade http://www.grenoblelife.com/the-price-of-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-427 Anna Cartalade Wed, 20 Jan 2010 11:16:13 +0000 http://www.grenoblelife.com/?p=2293#comment-427 I had a similar experience five years ago with Free. Three months of paying and not actually having the internet. After hundreds of calls, complaints, letters etc. I finally cancelled my direct debit. I received two threatening letters and then they never said another word. Doesn't look like they have any intention of improving! I've been with Orange ever since ... they're quite possibly more expensive than other providers, but I've always been happy with their customer service. I had a similar experience five years ago with Free. Three months of paying and not actually having the internet. After hundreds of calls, complaints, letters etc. I finally cancelled my direct debit. I received two threatening letters and then they never said another word. Doesn’t look like they have any intention of improving! I’ve been with Orange ever since … they’re quite possibly more expensive than other providers, but I’ve always been happy with their customer service.

]]> By: Suzanne Bonnefond http://www.grenoblelife.com/the-price-of-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-426 Suzanne Bonnefond Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:25:21 +0000 http://www.grenoblelife.com/?p=2293#comment-426 thank you James for this information ... I want to cancel my free account ... Arrghh !! am I doing to do it after that ??? thank you James for this information … I want to cancel my free account … Arrghh !! am I doing to do it after that ???

]]> By: Woody http://www.grenoblelife.com/the-price-of-freedom/comment-page-1/#comment-425 Woody Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:56:49 +0000 http://www.grenoblelife.com/?p=2293#comment-425 I have had only positive experiences with both Neufbox and Alicebox (now owned by SFR). Neuf can be slow in setting the connection up at first but the connection is fast and it's easy to cancel the contract at the end, change the name on the contract, or even transfer the contract to your new address. The one good thing about Alice was the speed at which they set the connection up. We contacted them a week in advance, received our box quickly and our connection was working two hours after the old one was cut! One thing to check for is the cost of closing an account. Some companies charge up to €80, and others only €40! A friend of mine swears by "Dartybox", which you can order and arrange by popping into one of the various Darty shops around town (notably at Grand Place, or in St. Martin D'Hères, hear Castorama and Ikea). I have had only positive experiences with both Neufbox and Alicebox (now owned by SFR). Neuf can be slow in setting the connection up at first but the connection is fast and it’s easy to cancel the contract at the end, change the name on the contract, or even transfer the contract to your new address.

The one good thing about Alice was the speed at which they set the connection up. We contacted them a week in advance, received our box quickly and our connection was working two hours after the old one was cut!

One thing to check for is the cost of closing an account. Some companies charge up to €80, and others only €40!

A friend of mine swears by “Dartybox”, which you can order and arrange by popping into one of the various Darty shops around town (notably at Grand Place, or in St. Martin D’Hères, hear Castorama and Ikea).

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